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News 2600: On the Topic of Spirits (Rogon) catchup  discussions

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2020/10/22 05:34, Draz:  edited 2x   
So I leveled up the stats I recommended, I still think they are really good. Perfect if you want to lean towards new charmie / pure but might want 18 str weapon or have a couple builds available (which is a pretty good idea considering it's still so new).

Based on seeing how new charmies are in PK you will likely want either -1 max will or max will if they are your focus (non-pk, anything will work if no one else in your group has charmies). Each point of will power affects command a LOT (3.75% by my tests), max base will lets you hit a 96% break point I believe.

Base stats (92% track, 92% command, 96% arm/shield/harm possible?):
Str:14 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:10 Con:12 Wil:15 Per:10

Train option #1 - balanced - no 18 str weapon:
Str:13 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:11 Con:13 Wil:15 Per: 9

Train option #2 - max will (affects command when non-base?):
Str:12 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:10 Con:12 Wil:16 Per: 9

Train option #3 - 18 str weapon (mana + mana regen loss or command/blind reduction):
Str:15 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:11 Con:13 Wil:14 Per: 9
Str:15 Int:15 Wis:15 Dex:11 Con:13 Wil:15 Per:10

All that said, if you know you're willing to forgo fine metals + 18 str weapon, these stats look so sweet:
Str:12 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:10 Con:11 Wil:16 Per:10

Str:12 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:11 Con:14 Wil:15 Per: 9
Str:13 Int:15 Wis:16 Dex:11 Con:13 Wil:15 Per: 9

2020/10/22 12:24, Facelift: 
So how much command % you need to have this dreadful warg reliable in PK?

Thinking if i should even bother with it...

2020/10/22 13:57, Rhaerys:   
I would think you'd want it pretty reliable as your commands will have to do the heavy lifting in PK. Shadow and warg pets don't appear to be aggro to anyone (same side or opposite) so you aren't going to get any free attacks.

That being said, since you can only have one minion, your % command shouldn't need to be as high. My understanding is that you need it higher based on how high level your pets are and how many pets you have.

Further to this, I have a question. If I run with one lithe on my BN with 105 command I rarely ever fail a command. However, when I joined two shamans who each had a shadow, my command was failing like crazy! We were grouped. It wasn't as bad when one shaman and his pet left the group. I wonder if this is a bug or intended to discourage massive charm groups?

2020/10/24 04:12, Fleck:   
Seems like I fail a good amount of commands with 92% command on shadow (multiple in a row regularly). Int 15 / Wil 15.

Does anyone know how command works?
-Does it scale with levels?
-Does active will power matter or just base for prac %?

2020/10/24 06:13, Fleck:   
Well seems like warg is much easier to command.

2020/10/24 11:50, Facelift: 
I decided not to go with the raise dead. Insane amount of pracs for it + command.

Everyone got a shadow/warg so i'd rather just find someone with it to redshirt while maintaining sturdy shaman attributes.

Though hearing that warg is easier to command makes me wanna try it still, esp for solo pk

2020/10/24 12:23, Ruen: 
I think its a great change to shadows with great options for more. Shadows seem more responsive than before and to hear they last longer and have more moves is a huge comfort. It was just such a huge mana drain before to keep a shadow, or always just keep a corpse with you or always be thinking about your next corpse to raise. I would guess that 2/3 of my commands failed before, and that 1/3 or less fail now. This is with command maxed out at 80%. Its great for xp. I still would not rely on it in pk, but that is just me. I would be more willing to try some pk out with shadow now especially with rescue. I would not say its insane amount of pracs, maybe around 25 - 30 which is the same that a puke would use on charm/command. So it seems similar. Shaman is way more playable especially pure shaman. There is a lot of versatility and some different ways to play shaman now. Thanks alot!!!

2020/10/27 03:58, Draz:   
So I leveled up a legend with the higher will stats I posted before and PK'd them a bit. It's honestly really great, feels like pure'ish shamans were given an identity. My feedback is you nailed it, it's a very rewarding character to play.

Unique from BN while having it's own strengths (combined mage/cleric, real defense) but still having some kill power with bash not taking away from your spell power. I felt like I could fight back against charmie puke casters with meagles at least. Being able to bash / get hits in on wimpy is very strong + the usual good shaman defense, blinds, etc..

If we're taking requests I'd still recommend a block door type of thing for sham but seriously 10/10 :)

2020/10/30 03:04, One:   
Can I still raise shadows like grinder or muranog? Does the dreadful wars vanish when you rent? Or can it then be charmed by a BN?

2020/10/30 07:10, Elestir:   
You can raise them, but their power will be capped, so the shadows won't be any better than shadow of any other hero-level mob.

Wargs probably should vanish on rent, unless it is bugged.

2020/10/30 07:15, Elestir:   
That being said, maybe they shouldn't be hard-capped as they currently are (removing any incentive of getting higher level corpses for shadows), but soft-capped, i.e. any level above hero should still count but only with like 1-10% (subject to balance). So Grinder would then provide slightly better shadow, but still not too OP one. I think that would be more fun at least...

2020/10/31 03:28, Ghaul:   
Takhr the orkish warden helps Raoh into his private chamber.
A dreadful warg is dead! R.I.P.
The corpse of a dreadful warg falls down to the dark cave below.

2020/10/31 06:55, Rísneth: 
Raise dead from corpse of dreadful warg!

2020/11/13 08:22, Draz:  edited 1x   
PK'd it even more. Shaman is my favorite character. Dreadful is a little beefcake. I just feel viable in PK now, playing a dark caster with some defense / tankiness is very fun.

If you go pure'ish (no bash basically) and want to PK you will need a responsive warg, 15 or 16 (max) base will power. I strongly recommend against skimping on command %.

2020/11/15 13:55, Ishamael:   
For obvious reasons protect was not a feature for the enslaved shadows as that would render it too strong in PK having a nobash high hp shadow intercepting all hits. Ppl complaining shadows are weaker, in some way they are. But overall its a really good change that made shamans so much more versatile. Making it easier to always have a shadow up and not having 30-40 minute timer until you need to kill another high level mob. My one complaint is that STILL shadows, and the warg. Are still a bit too demanding to command and you fail too much. Im not sure that I agree that wargs are easier to command as you need to get through 2 commands for a bash and the chance to fail either assist or bash is as high if not higher then commanding the shadow to do hit or assist. Orcs could really use more command pracs.

2020/11/15 15:16, Elestir:   
Equipment boosting command for certain types of mobiles could also help. E.g. something like the Bulag's necklace for undead mobs, warg furs for wargs, etc.

2020/11/15 17:05, Draz:  edited 1x   
Are there other variables that impact command success? Sometimes it feels like I rarely fail and others even the warg becomes a stubborn lil' dude.

Grouping even with one other person sometimes seems to trigger it but sometimes not, is it about who is the leader in the group perhaps? And it happens solo as well (zone dependent)?

I very much agree that my 15 int (max) / 15 will (-1 from max) shaman with 92% command (max) probably should have a bit more control at least over his warg. But I will say it is PK-able.

2020/11/15 23:37, Ishamael:   
Yeah I really think orcs should get more command when their stats for commanding are so much lower compared to the other races. And then add insult to injury that they have fewer pracs to spend in it. Makes litterally no sense any longer as we dont have the balance issue of ppl having multiple shadows.

2020/11/15 23:57, Belamir: 
Ishamael, you literally just described the entire concept behind dark-side races.

They are designed to be weaker than their light-side counterparts.

2020/11/16 01:08, Ishamael:   
Weaker does not mean it need to be utterly frustrating. We are already weaker. With stats, pracs, sun malus, and the list goes on. If I would invest 26 pracs in command from my already lower amount of pracs, is my character stronger? Its actually weaker in alot of aspects. As a caster without charm would be able to transfer that power from charm/raise+command into higher % in attackspells and having more utility spells in general, better ranger skills, endurance etc. And allies would not have get hit by aggro charmies while chasing someone thats low, or after you had to flee out from some quakes. This is part of the games balance, choosing where you want your characters power to be, and is a big reason what makes this game fun.

2020/11/16 02:05, Draz:   
I think one of the benefits of making command somehow more effective for orcs is that will power was very optional before for shamans.

So like my 11 will power shaman is for all intents and purposes after this change is a useless character, at least in my pk-centric eyes. I already remade so I don't care but I could see benefit in not bricking a majority of pre-existing shamans.

I bet at least 50% of shamans have 13 will power or lower (base) if you read the recommendations given in shaman stat threads, 75% wouldn't shock me. I read every word multiple times before making my shaman.

It could be higher like 75%, will power wasn't obviously useful (there's a clever bash % build but no one ever posted about it).

And let's be clear, there's no concerns about shaman being worse than their white side counter parts, even if you make orc command a bit better. Not even a discussion really. You'd be hard pressed to make the case they are even in the same ballpark as a BN (although it's a legit choice now as opposed to just a goofy thing to do like before).

2020/11/16 02:24, Draz:   
Now, my suspicion is that if the old skills / spells start to get revamped which there is some evidence of (with robe giving +2 spell power to fear which is currently a mostly useless spell from our testing) shamans are well positioned to benefit from that so I'm not too concerned in general.

Fear, hold person, black breath, energy drain, poison there's some interesting possibilities on the table.

I'd definitely like to see a small upgrade to orc command but they already made shamans playable, I'd feel bad about 'complaining' :). And I'm hardly unbiased!

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