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Why don't we got an immigration thread? catchup  discussions

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2018/08/15 23:25, Bardock: 
Arcanum, these pathological altruist are only happy watching their society burn while they collect cool points from other virtue signalers. They don't care their civilization is failing, infact they applaud it.

2018/08/16 08:08, Roadkill: 
Yay, you learned a new pseudojargon buzzword.

2018/08/24 17:57, Bardock:edited 1x   
Ouch, lets see Roadkill try to say this one is cherry picking. These latest numbers from Sweden totally put Roadkill in his intellectual place (of being absolutely wrong)

[submitted link]
85% of all convicted assault rapists were born outside of Europe

OUCH ROADKILL! Cant wait to hear you stumble over these facts and cry 'CHERRY PICKING' yea cause its 'cherry picking' to report on factual data right? Factual data is racist so pathological altruist dont really care for it.

plz I know there is some math experts here but someone want to calculate the disparity? What is it like 1 percent of the population accounting for over half of the rapes?

refugees didnt do nuffin wrong eh?

2018/08/24 21:06, Roadkill:edited 1x   
Unlike you, I have watched the programme in question. And unlike you (and your infowars 'source') I, along with the rest of the literate part of the world, noted the rather important caveat that Uppdrag Granskning added to those results, in a vain attempt to try to prevent people like you from jumping to (wrongful) conclusions. :-)

Let's see if you can find it, too.

Edit: Link to the program.

[submitted link]

2018/08/25 00:18, Bardock: 
lol from the translated page I just read, the data seems to correct so good job verifying it previously? Seems your notions from the past are being dissengrated now by data that you cant even dispute now yes?

2018/08/25 00:41, Roadkill: 
So you didn't catch it.

Well, don't feel too bad. Neither did infowars. Or if they did, they chose not to add it to the story.

Here's a hint: how large a percentage of rape suspects are migrants?

2018/08/27 20:19, Bardock: 
how in denial can you get Roadkill?

new statistics that show 58% of convicted rapists and 85% of all convicted assault rapists were born outside of Europe.

the stats were linked and confirmed this. You just are not capable of accepting reality are ya?

do you have a problem with the sources? I dont see how you can get much better of a source then they have.

2018/08/28 09:14, Roadkill: 
I'm just enjoying your continued inability to correctly interpret statistics, which further serves to prove why misinformative media is a threat to democracy.

I'll give you a couple more days to get it right.

If you need help, just say so and I'll point you towards the information the increasingly aptly named infowars site decided to gloss over.

2018/08/28 09:30, Bardock: 
its sad watching you every time new stats are posted from the Swedish government and police stations there, you just cant accept reality. The numbers are clear as day. You can never confront it, its very sad. Like watching a drug addict tell you they have no problem.

lets hear a rebuttal or anything cogent, the fact is 58 percent of rapes are caused by migrants and with only a tiny fraction of the population being migrants, that's an insanely alarming statistic and by the looks of it, the cops are very alarmed and worried and people are resigning over these facts because they aren't allowed to speak of them.

then you got virtue signalers like Roadkill who applaud this stuff and continue to stand by

'refugees didn't do nuffin'

no matter how many innocents are harmed all you care about is feeling virtuous.

2018/08/28 15:23, Roadkill: 
Now you're even wronger. :-)

2018/08/28 18:41, Eldaril: 
'misinformative media is a threat to democracy'

I'm willing to pin this down on lousy higher education. Everyone with a college (heck, even with a high school) degree should be able to have basic critical reading skills and understanding of elementary statistics. It really isn't that hard, and it should be attainable even for people with otherwise limited talents. But I guess expanding college rates for quantity has come at the expense of quality...

2018/08/28 20:31, Roadkill: 
Actually, this probably has more to do with market-driven media and a failure of the lower education system.

For example, in the US, 32 million adults are analphabetes, and 50% of adults cannot read a book written at 8th grade level.

Now I grant you that the US is the absolute worst of the civilized world when it comes to literacy, doing poorly even by African standards, but the problem is still large elsewhere, too.

Bear in mind that it only takes a party about 10% of the popular vote in most Western countries to attain some very real and serious influence.

(the most notableexceptions being the USA and UK, which are for almost all practical intents and purposes two-party systems).

This puts an onus on non-written media to report truthfully and understandably, which market forces has encouraged them to neglect, as sensationalism sells, while sense does not.

2018/08/29 17:36, Bardock: 
the facts are clear, no one is disputing them but you, this is what having a dogmatic bias does to people. You guys just seem like pathetic people who cant cope with reality, the numbers are real and scary but like I said reality doesent matter to pathological altruist, you probably hope more people get raped and killed by refugees.

2018/08/29 20:48, Eldaril: 
>This puts an onus on non-written media to report truthfully and understandably, which market forces has encouraged them to neglect, as sensationalism sells, while sense does not.

That should rather put onus on society in general the educational system in particular to produce better rounded individual.

The reason why the media, written and otherwise, used to eschew sensationalism is that being wrong actually used to matter. Our hypocritical consumption of news right now has made it possible for news outlets to put stuff out there that 'reportedly' happened. And if that stuff falls flat on its face -- 'Hey, we didn't say it happened, we said that someone said it happened'. As long as they can get away with this and save face, we're in trouble.

The media isn't a cure to our issues, it's a symptom.

2018/08/29 21:18, Roadkill: 
Eldaril: You have a point.

Bardock: You don't.

2018/08/30 00:36, Bardock: 
Roadkill, your denial is truly sad. Instead of offering nothing as you do and looking rediculous.

provide an argument about how the statistics from the police are incorrect.

the chiief of police said Malmo is now like a war zone, the police must act as if they are the military to sustain the massive up tick in violence and rape.

Stop denying it and make your case, the data is clear and apparent, prove your argument instead of being in denial. You are horrible at this, you just look very bad at this point. Its truly sad how dogmatic you are when it comes to actual facts and data.

stop being a coward and prove what your saying, it should be easy to demonsrate but in this case the numbers do not lie.

seriously the percentage of the population that is migrants is small, for them to commit 58 percent..... thats a huge disparity.

the data is coming from the police reports, you literally have no argument . Its funny how you cant actually provide a defense for anything you say , only pathetic pats on the back amongst you two.

put your money were your mouth is coward.

2018/08/30 17:12, Arcanum:   
One could of course read the official statistics. It shows that invaders committed way more crimes than swedes in Sweden. But then again, since the results were not suitable for socialist propaganda, swedes dropped the science in the name of the plan. Think it was 2004 or 2005. No official statistics since then.

And now consider how many invaders have arrived since. 2015 alone had some 1 mil +. Officially 600k+ and educated guess by swedish scientist (born in middle east btw, think i posted it few pages above) that about same amount of invaders are not even registered.

I have to admit i have seen quite some crime statistic graphs over the years. But the graphic of rapes in Sweden since 1970-s year by year - is mind-blowing. Still.

I pitty you. May be it was the propaganda from early childhood, may be it was something else. But man! you are a mentally handicapped lot :(

2018/08/30 17:19, Arcanum:   
I am pleased to say tho
that I have seen Sweden
before it was not necessity
to carry
visiting Sweden

what beautiful land
are you surrendering

2018/09/01 17:01, Bardock:edited 2x   
Roadkill cares not for facts, I have proven all he cares about is feeling good about himself. Nevermind that 100 cars burned the other night in Sweden, that a tiny percent of the population (middle eastern migrants) are committing 58 percents of the rape and 90 percent of the shootings.

none of them care about the facts, all they care about is virtue signalling and its going to be the downfall of their nation, Sweden has already released dire warnings about civil war approaching. The police in Malmo have released statements saying they can no longer operate without the military....

so successful right Roadkill? So much success!!!!!! Civilization crumbling is a notch in his virtuous belt.

[submitted link]

Yall deserve a great pat on the back for the great work your doing to these homelands.

I recall me saying you wont be happy till the countries are burning in ruin,

You happy yet?

2018/09/16 17:42, Roadkill: 
Continuing our excellent discussion about the misinformative coverage of some media regarding immigrants and rape in Sweden, Bardock, here is a good article explaining a similar deliberate misinformation about migrants and crime in Germany. This is likely generalizeable onto all European countries.

[submitted link]

2018/09/17 06:56, Bardock: 
thanks for sharing Roadkill, I will do some research on the link you provided. I actually want to discover the truth on this and so far you have made a good case on your argument.

2018/09/20 16:09, Arcanum:   
Soviet psychiatrist Andrei Snezhnevsky, hero of socialist labor, owner of two Orders of Lenin as well as four Orders of the Red Star and USSR state prize personally signed a decision declaring several prominent dissidents legally insane – among them also neurophysiologist Vladimir Bukovsky, who was the first to expose and criticize the abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union and spent altogether 12 years in prisons, forced labor camps and locked up in psychiatric hospitals for his efforts.

/anyone realize how it fits in this thread?/

2018/09/20 20:01, Roadkill: 
Taking a wild guess, I'd have to go with 'Marine Le Pen'.

2018/09/20 23:00, Arcanum:   
And a point goes to Roadkill.

... must undergo a psychiatric evaluation to determine whether 'she is capable of understanding remarks and answering questions.'

I recalled an interview and re-watched it:
[submitted link]

2018/09/21 05:31, Savu:   
[submitted link]
/ Le Pen’s criticism fits the party’s narrative that it is persecuted by judges as part of an attempt by the establishment to undermine it politically.

Le Pen was placed under formal investigation in March on suspicion of disseminating violent images. The law states that medical evaluations must be carried out in such probes.

Feels a lot like the commotion another investigation overseas from France. Serious desire to be shown as a victim of the system even though treating them any differently would be breaking the law.

2018/09/21 06:58, Roadkill: 
The law requirement notwithstanding, the nationalist alt right is testing the boundaries of clinical mental disorders to some extent.

We saw this perhaps most clearly with Breivik after Utøya.

Believing that Norway is being over-run by muslims to the extent that armed resistance is required, is an opinion which is obviously false and unfounded in reality, and meets all the clinical requirements for a paranoid delusion. Unsurprisingly, one team of specialists found reason to diagnose him as paranoid schizophrenic, while another team disagreed. The debate is still going on in academic circles.

I'm not saying I believe that Breivik really is paranoid schizophrenic. I'm saying that his belief and actions certainly can justify such a diagnosis.

The point is that when a person's beliefs and actions are sufficiently irrational and sufficiently impact their own ability to function in a normal way, in addition to adversely affecting others, the question of a diagnosable mental disorder being present becomes relevant.

And if you don't think eccentric, non-rational beliefs and opinions can be sufficient grounds to warrant suspicion of a mental disorder, you're just wrong.

[submitted link]

2018/09/21 07:14, Roadkill: 
While I haven't read the reports of Breivik's mental assessment, it is not difficult to guess what the specialists who diagnosed him as paranoid schizophrenic were thinking.

Here are the DSM-V criteria for the disorder.
[submitted link]

I'm guessing they marked Breivik down for delusions and negative symptoms as core symptoms. His beliefs and the fictional construct he had created around them (Templar Knights armed resistance, etc) certainly come across as obviously delusional, and his lack of emotional response was, according to some, quite noticeable in the aftermath.

As for (1), a marked impairment was observed in both his work and interpersonal relations, which had been present for an extended period of time.

For item (2), the impairments in (1) as well as his delusional beliefs had been present for well over 6 months, so that box is checked as well.

And for (3) I'm guessing they ruled out depression, bipolar disorder and schizoaffective disorder. Certainly there seems to be no indication of the last two.

The only relevant question remaining is whether or not there has been a history of autism spectrum disorder, but they'll have checked extensively for that.

So you see, while the diagnostic criteria are somewhat subjective, it is not hard to see why some may have felt he ticked all the necessary boxes.

The doctors who disagreed that he was paranoid schizophrenic diagnosed him with something else instead. I don't know what that was, and don't much care. I just find the question of how to define (and treat) a delusion (or a fixed false belief) relevant, and interesting.

As for MLP, I don't know much about her, and don't care to.

2018/09/21 08:55, Arcanum:   
There truly are persons who see monkeys chasing them. And they do strange things trying to escape - i e go into sea-waters. Rest of the people just see someone running into sea with cloth on and standing there staring the shore. delusions, sure.

Then there are those 'monkeys' beating each other and bystanders (Paris, Stalingrad station was famous some time ago) and some people do things to 'escape' them - i e say publicly this is not normal, this should stop asap. Rest of the people just see MSM, which avoids (correct term is censors) the real world issues. We seem to disagree which group is delusional, I still believe the people believing propaganda that everything is just cool. (Move along, move along, nothing to see here!)

As for Marine le Pen. Seems she disagreed with someone comparing her or her party to ISIS. It is no good to show the sheeple what is going on in the real world. Religion of peace and all that, you know. 'The charges stem from a series of tweets Le Pen sent in the weeks after the Bataclan massacre, where she shared disturbing photos including images from the beheading of American journalist James Foley. Le Pen later took the photos of Foley down after being contacted by his family.

Other pictures showed a man in an orange jumpsuit being run over by a rank - another showed a man being burned alive in a cage.

'Daesh is this!' Le Pen wrote in a caption. The tweets were a response to a TV journalist drawing a comparison between ISIS and the French far-right.'

2018/09/21 12:11, Roadkill: 
Here's an example which I hope may serve to clarify things a bit, with regards to diagnosing mental illness.

Take a couple of your standard, run-of-the-mill conspiracy theories. Like, say, that the earth is flat, and the round-earth thingy is just a conspiracy between NASA, the CIA and all the worlds' governments. Or that the moon landings were faked, by more or less the same actors, and the Rotschilds.

Now take Guy A, who believes these things, but apart from participating in a few forums online, he spends his days otherwise peacefully, and does not feel a need to Preach the Truth to the Masses. He goes to work, spends time with his family and helps his kids do their homework in the normal way (not forcing them to incorporate his own belief into their school science essays).

Then take Guy B who also believes these things, and, in addition to preaching online, pickets in front of parliaments, government agencies, forms his own political party to bring attention to these issues, and tends to crash science conventions to shout his message. When this happens, he usually has to be led away by security and/or police.

Finally, take Guy C who believes these things also. He organizes a band of like-minded people to sabotage any organizations and/or persons he believes to be involved in the conspiracy, and threatens anyone who gets in his way with violence, which he fully believes is justified in his fight for The Cause.

All three of these guys have a Fixed False Belief. But only two of them have it to such a degree that it disturbs their function, and one of them has it to such a degree that it makes him potentially dangerous to not only himself, but others as well. We might expect both Guys B and - especially - C to get diagnosed with a mental illness, due to the extent of their dysfunction.

As for Le Pen, I don't care. Whether or not she is mentally healthy, she is hateful and prejudiced, and I have better things to do with my time.

2018/09/22 22:24, Arcanum:   
If you spent your time watching the interview, you might have diagnosed the bbc guy as 'hateful and prejudiced'.
I did not care either, until I saw that interview for the first time (when it was still fresh). If only we had more people in politics like that, I thought. There was no question, if she is capable of understanding remarks and answering questions.

2018/09/23 01:31, Roadkill: 
Good mental health years ago does not prove good mental health today.

2018/10/13 13:56, Andróg:   
I realize I'm joining this debate several weeks late, but I'd like to point out that while I'm totally fine with limiting the activities of Guy C (although I'd rather go the criminal investigation path, rather than the mental health path), I would be very worried if Guy B types begin to get diagnosed with psychiatric diagnoses.

There is a very, very thin line between doing that to Guy B types and shutting down your political opponents with 'mental health' and 'unable to function in the society properly' excuses and accusations. I'm of course fine with having your security escort out Bs when they disturb some event too much, but depicting them as mentally ill discredits psychological science as a whole.

2018/10/14 04:36, Bardock: 
I just been studying up on this stuff, checking conflicting data sources, on one hand you have BRA and the raw numbers and then on the other hand you have some interesting factors that make it difficult to see the whole picture.

Recently tho, they voted to now show the backgrounds of perpetrators in these cases. they werent reporting on race and ethnicity before but apparently they are going to start? As far as I can tell. Maybe someone in the native tongue can give me a better idea.

this is an article describing the situation before the newest update

[submitted link]
im trying to find the new report that states they will now begin reporting origin of perpetrators but google is burying the headline , maybe someone with google skills can find it before me but il keep looking standby! Gotta find perfect sources and info when going against the master of debate Roadkill :)

2018/10/15 16:22, Arcanum:   
If you want to read about swedish system in english, try this one:
[submitted link]
I also wanted to cite an example from swedish penal code. Unfortunately they only post it in english as a text from 1999.

If any1 feels like giving me a link to proper text. (yes, i know they only consider text that is written <s> in stone </s> on paper as legally biding).

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